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75 Comments 
10 minutes
As a result of so much of my time being spent focused on building an SEO company and ranking websites, I’ve been fortunate to come across a number of people who are on a similar journey. Today I would like to introduce one of those people, Matt Prados, to the world. Matt has managed to build a 7-figure yearly revenue stream running his SEO business by targeting two specialist niches in the medical field.
Matt, from Southern California, is someone Diggy and I have been in touch with for all of 2014 and thought it’s about time we got him on the site to share his knowledge.
This is a topic I’m really passionate about and I hope you are too, because there are some great nuggets of wisdom here.
Every good interview starts with a little background on the subject of the questions. So Matt, please tell us a little about yourself and how you got started online…
As I think a lot of entrepreneurs do I was sitting in a seminar listening to a guy that was making millions online who frankly was not very smart. I said to myself “If this monkey can do it then so can I”. Up to that point I had never bought a domain, built a website and had no idea how to code. I had been in sales my entire life and knew I could sell internet marketing to local business owners.
I found some people that could build sites and we started selling. We had no product yet landed 10 clients before we even built one site. This was about 1-2 years before main street marketing and every guru was pitching local marketing.
SEO is just one of the many ways to generate traffic online. Why did you focus primarily on search?
I focused on SEO, PPC and social media when we started out. We quickly found social media to be a poor source of traffic for local businesses. We found that PPC was great but limited for local businesses and that no matter what the bulk of the traffic was coming from our SEO efforts.
So naturally we focused on the biggest sources of traffic the most.
Your main focus is doing SEO for clients in just two primary fields in the medical niche. Why did you choose these industries?
We actually started with one niche and only did that for 4 years then expanded to a second niche later on. We did this because we knew the first niche very well and had sold to this industry before for other services.
For the second niche we created a great relationship with a consultant and he sent us traffic. He hated internet geeks and had been burned too many times. I handled one site for him which showed him our skills and he started to refer us business.
That is the #1 way to build a local business FYI: Parasite marketing. But most of those opportunities are gone due to first mover advantage.
I believe there are two strategies for people starting a local marketing business and both come down to picking a niche. The first is niche & industry the second is niche & area. By doing either of these you can make your work flow easier to scale and expand quality delivery.
What would you say were the key ‘hockey-stick’ growth moments for you in your business. The changes you made which had the biggest effect on your results?
Bringing on and off loading team members as well as mentors is probably the biggest areas of change I have experienced. People that are good at the beginning are not always good in the middle or later when things get bigger.
Hire slow and fire fast some say. That is OK but really hire when you need to expand and fire when you need to cut dead weight.
One of the things we teach in Marketing Inc is about having a laser-like focus on just focusing in one specific industry and master marketing to that industry (for e.g. becoming THE marketing guy for hotels). Is this a philosophy you would agree with?
I respectfully disagree. I know that this strategy can work, I did it in my first niche but that was 5 years ago. Today, because many have gone down this path, most industries have “the gurus” and while you can disrupt them it is not that likely. Niche publications are very expensive to advertise in. Niche conferences are very expensive to be a vendor at. Getting on stage is even harder for a new person.
So now the doom and gloom is over… what would I do in TODAY’S environment to build a new SEO business? I would choose a territory where I live and hopefully have connections in and so on. I would be like the neighborhood realtor and build my business through relationships. Join or start a business networking group. A friend of mine started a new way to create these groups like this one for Bristow. I would use his model.
Also from an SEO point of view think of the great PBN you could build that is 100% about your location… interlinking between local client sites, guest blogging, JV’s you could organize and so on. This way you can go to clients offices’, take photos, shoot videos, meet/train staff. The biggest lesson in this business is no matter the results you get if they do not result in money in their pocket because their staff stink or they do not think that lead came from you, you will lose business.
This is not important in the selling phase but is in the scaling your business part. The longer you keep clients that wealthier you will be.
So the more touch and personal contact you can have the easier time you will have in proving results and keeping clients. Plus for marketing you could do local event sponsorships and do good in your community. You could have events locally to generate leads and sales and it will be easier to get results as “THE CITY SEO GUY” vs the “Niche Guy” neighbors talk and refer. Not guys that went to college 10+ years ago together.
I have squashed a few start-ups that tried to take my position in my niche. But I can’t compete with the guy who is “local” to client with local-shop type campaigns. The biggest issue that no one talks about is retention of clients in SEO, local marketing and PPC or the % you WILL lose. “Churn” as it is called in the grown up world. Every business will lose clients.
I never thought about this when I went in business almost 6 years ago. Since the attractive part of this model is monthly income lets get the dirty little secret out: You will lose clients. The trick to BIG success is to lose as little as possible. I could go on for hours on this. I am half inspired to do this in my own area even though we have a very successful international company. Perhaps we can do a webinar on this some day. (Glen: Sounds awesome!)
The one and ONLY way to handle churn if you are in fact delivering a good service is Call Tracking. Record calls and review them with clients. Clients never give you credit for leads without it. I have used most of the platforms out there – I know many have issues – so I created and use MessageMetric.com
Glen: “Likewise I’ll have to respectfully disagree. It’s interesting you say what you did about most industries having their gurus already…”
It’s really not what I’m seeing across hundreds of absolutely huge industries. And when the market is so huge – i.e. helping hotels get more customers – then there is going to be space for new competitors. Since we’re attracting clients online here, that would eradicate the need for being a vendor at conferences and advertising in niche publications. These people can definitely be reached via Facebook, Adwords, Blogging and outreach.
Not forgetting of course angles like the Rank and Rent model where you can showcase your SEO skills without having to pitch to anyone. I think myself and Diggy are good proof of that.
You definitely have a point about being successful in a specific region though and I already see this working really well. Daryl, who I’m going to be interviewing on the blog soon, is pulling in some nice figures with that approach. I see no reason why you couldn’t implement both. For instance, being the go to guy for marketing London Hotels. For a lot of people I think just hoping to attract local clients could be difficult, especially if you don’t come from the best area.
I think it’s a shame when people try to sell SEO and they target anyone and everyone. From what I see the market is crying out for the SEO gurus in the automotive, retail, medical and other industries. The online gambling sites are certainly paying people who have learned SEO for that industry very, very well.
Matt: “If you are not in the industry publications you are not an industry go to guy in my opinion.”
Adwords: Dental Advertising $22/click, Lawyer Marketing $18/click to just name 2 of the top “niches” that are promoted to go after.
Facebook sure they are there but its gonna be a tough go with little street cred.
Blogging and outreach in local business marketing is like yelling from a rooftop.
Hotel marketing maybe but I don’t see how you can do both as if you are the “Hotel” guy you can’t have two clients going after the same keywords i.e London Hotel. In my opinion you have to be loyal to that client, so one client per niche per area in local marketing.
Referrals are the #1 source of traffic for all businesses. That is why people with loyal lists are great affiliates. Going after franchises or multi-location businesses is a great plan too.
I have never tried the rank then rent model; I always rent then rank.
I agree you should not just try to sell “everyone” but I think that being the “SEO guru of Seattle” is a niche in and of itself. People like doing business with people like them which being the “Hotel SEO guy” makes you like hotels kinda but being the “SEO guru of Seattle” you ARE a Seattlian already.
I think SEO as a stand alone service is very risky. I really believe people need to be able to do Adwords, get conversions, understand email marketing and so on. Kind of like how the IM “gurus” have grown up and now do “High End Coaching”, I believe that the successful local marketers or local SEO’s will grow up and be a real internet marketing agency and not just offer SEO.
But beyond that I believe there is more money in having your own product that you can do SEO for or more completely drive traffic and conversions to so having a product (or service if you are organizationally inclined) is very valuable.
I see some of the most successful online marketers (from affiliate guys to product launch people and FB ad guys) moving to having their own real product, supplements and T-shirts that they can sell in mass. Get your local marketing agency going as a building block but do not think it is your 100 year+ company. Get your skills dialed in. Learn traffic, learn conversions, learn ROI…then find your own.
Glen: “Let’s agree to partially disagree on this one…”
There are definitely ways to get around such high click prices and sources of traffic. Net Profit Explosion – the marketing company for gym owners – do a great job of utilising Facebook to get people to come back to their website. I have no doubt they’re building remarketing lists that they can push on Twitter and through Google as well where clicks will be much cheaper.
Underground Elephant are another good example. They’ve just this month been placed on the Inc 5000 fastest growing companies list for the second year running. They capture leads in these exact expensive cost per click industries – using PPC – and resell them for a much higher price because of what these leads could be worth. A ViperChill reader (and member of their staff) confirmed all of this to me.
Totally agree with you on the London Hotel comment regarding SEO; every time we open our doors we have to turn people away because they want to rank for a term we’re working on for another client. I was more referring to the other angles of business you could do for them that you hinted at earlier like email marketing, helping with conversions and so on.
Myself and Diggy have a dozen law companies paying us a nice monthly fee for SEO services. Most of these were picked up through the rank and rent model and none have ever met us in person. Though I am sure, if you have the sales skills, selling locally has amazing potential. In fact I think a lot of people reading this are going to read your comments, which you coupled with some great marketing ideas, and think “I can do that” and I hope it inspires them to take action.
I just see the potential to scale and grow your business being much bigger if you can figure out how to get the attention of a particular market online because then you can target businesses in any industry you care about and any area.
If I ever settle down in one location I may just give the local expert angle a shot.
So, back to your own business. What is your growth plan for the next few months and years of your business?
The business has had its ups and downs especially when it comes to SEO with all of the updates Google make. I think I have learned to see where Google is headed more than ever, so now I have fixed our systems to match that moving forward. I have also done quite a bit in recent months to cut costs, increase net profit and still improve the overall quality of the service we offer clients.
Now is the time to scale, get more sales and add more team members. I think that in the next 12 months I can double my business while continuing to deliver excellent results.
It’s impressive that you’ve managed to build this highly profitable business, essentially out of thin air. SEO can be tough but it’s certainly learnable. What do you think stops other people from having success in this field?
Investing.
Investing in as much education as possible that is needed to get the insiders view of SEO. Reading the blogs, watching the Twitter feeds and even going to events is not enough. I hired one of these “speak at events guys” with all his technical “know how” and that was a disaster. He worked so slow and could not scale to save his life.
I have bought every course on SEO. I have paid every top SEO to see what they know and would do in my shoes. Some of it was good advice and worth it; some was complete shit and had no value in a local agency. Marketing has to become an obsession because traffic is nothing without conversions. Conversions are where the money is made.
I buy all the real marketing courses even if I will know 98% of the content already. If there is that 2% that could boost my business by a few points I am all about making the investment.
As we wrap this up I’m sure a lot of people will want to know: What type of SEO are you doing for your clients? PBN links? Outsourcing link building? Writing great content and getting it shared?
ALL. You need to know what works, what used to work and predict what will work in the future. You will get Google slapped because the other dirty little secret is that ALL SEO IS BLACKHAT. Google has an algorithm and they do not want use to manipulate it. You must not only do SEO for local; you must do their PPC and their site and so on because if you don’t, the minute you get slapped you are fired.
On top of that, if you will have to do the same amount of work to manage SEO, PPC, or a website for a company that grosses 1M/yr and will pay you $1,000 per month or a company that grosses 10M/yr and will pay you $5,000/mo which do you want? Companies with 50+ employees are on average spending $63,000/yr on their website, SEO and email marketing.
Whatever you do, get your hustle on!
As a final thought, I wanted to add to this.
I love running an seo agency for my local business clients. I think it is a great business but not in place of having your own physical or digital product – either local or national – to sell and deliver. If you already have a successful business learn marketing to be more successful at that. For example, I was at a BBQ with a friend and met a guy that sold packs to runners, hikers and bikers and I gave him some information on how to do retargeting with ads.
I didn’t see him for 6 months then bumped into him and he said because of the information I shared with him he made an extra $100K in the last six months in sales. So needless to say I will expand my SEO agency, but at the same time I am marketing new products I’m personally bringing to market as well to have more than one source of income. Learn SEO sure, but master marketing.
When someone can SELL they will always eat well. Someone that has mastered marketing and conversions will be RICH!
***
I want to thank Matt for taking the time out to share his thoughts on running a business and how others could look to run their own in the future as well. If anyone would like to see Matt’s very own call tracking solution then please do check out Message Metric.
As always, comments are always appreciate so we both welcome any feedback. I’m sure Matt will join us for a bit below π
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Appreciate the help!
Hahahaha….Very Funny…Nice one π
Hey Matt,
Great article but I hope you can clear something up for me. My partner and I have over 50 clients and I’ve always said that the one thing that would make our life so much easier is is call tracking.
The problem with local marketing is that Google doesn’t want you to use a different number on your site. Your NAP info has to match all the other info out there on the web (local directories, etc.) or else it hurts your Local SEO.
Every Local SEO expert says the same thing, that it has to be consistent and a separate call tracking number hurts you. That one of the only ways around it is just to use the number as an image in the graphic header or something similar.
What are your thoughts on this, or do you just not worry about the drawbacks to local SEO?
Eugene
Eugune,
Thanks for the comment!
Just emailed Matt to make sure he sees this π
Hi Eugene,
Congrats, 50 clients is a great agency.
We ALWAYS use call tracking on every site, different numbers for organic vs ppc.
We NEVER have a problem with local seo because of it.
We use schema heavily on the REAL world number in the footer (so on every page) and on the contact page us.
We always use the REAL world number in local listings, so you won;t get ALL the credit you desire but you will get more than you do now 100% guaranteed!
So to recap, there is NO drawback to using call tracking. 5 years deep in call tracking and that is never the reason we ever had a penalty :-).
Cheers,
Matt
Hey Matt,
Thanks so much for the reply. So if we’re talking Organic Search, and if you’re using schema for their real world number in both the footer on every page, and the contact page, then where are you placing their call tracking number?
In the graphic header of the site and the middle of the homepage/other pages?
What does Matt mean by REAL world number? Is this the clients business number?
Thanks for the insight,
Patric
Nice interview. Got some good take away.
1. All SEO is black-hat
2. Referrals will always remain number 1 source of quality traffic
3. Always be willing to learn new things
4. Diversify your income portfolio
Nice post Glen…
Don’t know why your comment was in spam but just fished it out (might want to email Akisment).
Glad you got something out of it!
I have to relate to Matt. I too run a SEO business for local people and it works I am making 6 six figuers a year. Targeting local is much easier as you can go to the office and talk and take pictures and get to know the staff just like Matt said. Great stuff.
Edgar,
Those are some great numbers, congratulations!
Thanks for leaving a comment π
Great interview. I have couple of things to add, and couple of questions to ask.
As to support Glen’s angle on rank first then rent, I would imagine that if you are the Niche SEO guy, than this is the only approach to take. Selling before you rank, as it seems to me, is possible only if you are the local SEO guy (more networking and in person meetings, am I right?)
I am very interested in content marketing for link building. Since you said that your SEO strategy encompasses almost everything, let me ask this- how do you manage to produce quality content, build connections within niches, gain authority…? How many people usually work for you and how do you organize them (one content strategist, someone who generates ideas, other who is in charge of networking…)?
Slavko – how many people do you have work for you… as many as you need and can afford. This will be different for every agency and their needs. The smaller the client’s budget the less you can do. SO the more you charge the more you can offer/deliver. There is no 100% right answer, sorry you have to find the right balance where you get results and make money.
Thanks for your thoughts as always, Slavko!
I don’t do this personally but have a lot of friends heavily focused on content marketing. I keep hearing great things about using BuzzStream in this context.
Basically it helps you keep track of potential outreach partners. It has a price tag but I would even just look at their demo videos to get a feel for how they operate.
Great interview again! I’m also for this way rank&rent. I’m doing this way few years already in my local area. I have no competition, but also no much niches where i can make some money…I’m talking about Bosnia.
Best for me was “rent a car” niche, i made about $500/m for renting my website (actually only telephone number), and just for one city in my country. And there is a real estate niche, where can be made some money, everything else is low…
So i’m suggesting to people to do rank&rent websites, because people are scared with that “pay me so i will make you results”…show them your results in their niche, and they will pay 100% for.
If you guys have any suggestions for niches where I can rank&rent for local niches, please write, maybe there is something in Bosnia that can also work. But don’t think so π
Yeah I can imagine this to be hard in some countries.
Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Vietnam etc etc and so on. Of course, there will always be someone who has enough money to pay a higher-end price for marketing services but it doesn’t help when your potential market is limited.
The highest paying industries – if you don’t care what you work – are pretty much:
– Loans
– Mortgages
– Insurance
– Lawyers / Attorneys
True!
I know that this are highest paying industries, and I would like to work for that in my local area, and I’m 100% sure that I can be for all this #1
but problem is:
– Loan (there is no loans here, actually one Bank have in plan to start first in few months online loans) – i will give a try if that happen.
– Mortgages – can’t profit on the internet with this π
– Insurance – huge potential niche, because in Bosnia, only 5% of people paying for life insurance. Car insurance is ok, i already have 1 site that cover car insurance, no profit. Not online…
– Lawyers – hah…already first for every city in Bosnia, but no profit, nothing…because Lawyers have law that can’t use any marketing, this is rule for all Lawyers in Balkan region…that’s sad…
I’m not complaining, i making some good money here with my full time (full advertising agency) job. And with few SEO clients. But I want to rule in local area in every niche π
And once again thanks for your posts, it’s really useful for me!
Nemanja, I suggest you get a virtual office address in another country that has $$ US, UK what ever. Get a Sales guy that can answer your phones and sell clients. You do your magic ranking the sites. Or you could use a service that answers the phones for you like a virtual receptionist and then transfers the calls to you, you would have to work local hours of the countries you sell in.
I’ve actually spoken and worked with Matt before, really clever guy! I loved his micro-site style of getting clients within the health niche, it stuck out to me when we first started conversing.
Glad to see how far his business has come, and I hope in some very small way I’ve helped with that :3
I thought you might of hired a few more people to see what they know, great consulting sessions I had with Matt anyway! Good luck with your future ventures Matt.
Thanks Charles. You are definitely one of the sharper seos and so young. I look for big things from you. Cheers, Matt
very good article, here in my country and elsewhere still think to rank for is REALLY have content, content is king, the other things are important because in the race who is cok atrinutos more wins and that I and no one can deny
Glen,
Loved the article. Couldn’t help but continue reading. Thanks for inviting Matt to share his experiences.
Greg Smith
Appreciate it, Greg!
Hey,
Good piece, but it was a bit confusing for me as I read through it. Maybe I’m slow, but I think you should make it a bit more clear who is talking and responding and so forth.
Good info though. Thanks Matt and Glen.
I run a local SEO agency w/50+ clients, and everything you say is mostly true to how we manage clients. Within the last year we have turned our focus on medical clients as well for multiple reasons.
One is that they have higher budgets typically, and are easier to retain as clients (they stick around longer)
Two is that they raise the value of your company from an outside looking in, even if they were paying the same amount as another type of client. For example, let’s say a doctor is paying you 1k a month, and a plumber is paying you 1k a month. The doctor client is so much more valuable from an intrinsic value standpoint.
Three is that they are great for referrals. The medical industry is a “follow” industry. You grab the top plastic surgeon in a city, and all the other surgeons now know your company and want to follow suit. (unless its a competitor, that can get tricky)
The downsides to working w/medical clients is..
– they are bastards about content. grammar has to be perfect and medically correct in every sense of the way, and even then that’s not always enough for them.
– they typically think they know everything and can sometimes be quite bothersome (hard to handle)
– selling to them and getting them to sign. If you get into the larger medical practices, like a hospital for example, you get dragged into their bureaucratic -everything must be approved 10 times by 5 different people – nothing gets done. It can be a long, drawn out process, just to get them to respond and sign, even after meeting with them!
the plus sides outweigh the downsides though.
Since working with medical clients it’s apparent to me that you run into more doctors/practices that don’t care so much about rankings. They just want someone to manage their site, directories and social. You begin to see that being just an SEO is clearly not enough. I juggle SEO, web dev, design, content, social, PPC, email/newsletters, other paid advertising, and every other thing under the sun. As a manager of SEO you get forced to learn all these areas because every client is different and wants/expects different things. I could “hire” for all of these areas, and I do have helpers, but it’s not cost effective to pay someone x amount each month to handle misc tasks.
At the end of the day it’s really about making the client happy. If that means managing their social and charging them 1k a month for “SEO/marketing” for minimal effort, then so be it.
You’re also 100% right on retention. We have a great rate in this area, but it becomes a never-ending cycle of making your client happy, and from my experience, clients can get upset over the stupidest stuff, some suck at running their business, some run out of money, some get stolen away by responding to the countless “SEO we can help emails.” It’s a battle to always make sure the client is happy/satisfied, and even then you can’t help but lose the occasional client to outside influences.
Anywho, just my thoughts. Thanks.
Max
Hi Glen,
Always a pleasure reading your essays of great information.
The problem I have with SEO, even when trying to rea about it, is that I do not understand it at all.
I have read your tutorial on this site, as well as the resources. Even practiced it for three years. I have never got no traffic, no rankings, no nothing.
Always a pleasure to read your awesome content though.
Just glad other people can succeed with it, and they deserve everything they get through the success!
George,
I think even setting up a basic site and getting some content on there will reduce in even at least a trickle of traffic.
What have you been practicing? You should at least put your link in the comments here so people can check it out π
Happy to help if I can!
Hosting run out last month, I paid for 3 years up front to keep me up with it.
No point commenting no more about it, or I will be writing an essay π
π I’m sad reading this.
Hi George,
I have an answer to your comment and it is: most of the free content can get you started with the basics, but if you really want to outperform and beat the other businesses, you will have to PAY to get the “secret” knowledge from the masters.
I’ve been “studying” SEO for 3-4 years now and have learned most of what I know for free. But, at the end, I always was struggling with the same things as you are: I didn’t get the results I wanted.
So, one day, I understood that all this free stuff was to get you the minimum stuff so you could begin, and then if you really wanted to have results faster, you would have to pay for it.
Notice that almost all internet marketing gurus sell courses or webinars or things like that. They give you free stuff, but they don’t tell you all the big picture. They would never do it or else they would not make any money out of it. If you really want to study for free, you have to make it the other way around and stop reading what they tell you, but try to see the big picture. Look at what you read and how it makes you feel. Then, what does it make you want to do? Click on a link, check their video, read another article? Then, where do they push you after that? Do they try to sell you something? Look at how they try to sell it: do they have a time limited offer? Do they have a product and then have a lot of bonuses with it?
My point is that free stuff doesn’t really exist. It’s a marketing technique that is working really really well. If you really want to learn for free, you must not ONLY read what they write, you must try to look at the big picture BEHIND what they write. Look at how the website is made. Try getting into their funnel and see how they make it work. But I will tell you, even if you do that, you will lose so much time trying to figure it out by yourself.
If you pay a course 699$ (like Glen’s course with Marketing Inc.) and then you end up with stuff that can make you thousands in return, then pay for it. You pay to get the knowledge fast and to stop wondering by yourself what works and what doesn’t. So now, you main goal with all what I said would not be to look for free stuff, but to start looking for the BEST course you can purchase. For that, you must find who are the best on the web and who will give you what you want. A good tip: you pay for what you get. Don’t buy cheap courses at 249$ or things like that. I did and ended up having all what I already knew, but in an organized way. You will have to pay higher prices to get the stuff that is really worth your money.
It was a long answer, I hope it helps a little. I know it’s may not be what you expected, but it’s a shocking truth that everyone who wishes to outperform in the web marketing industry must know!
Fantastic read, even for a noob!
Prior to watching the Marketing Inc. course I was an affiliate marketer in my first year.
The course inspired me to really take Internet marketing and put it to best practice by
becoming CEO and offering a valuable service to an industry that I’m passionate about.
Awaiting the chance to purchase the rest of the knowledge but in the meantime can you
offer any suggestions on what could be offered for the environmental services industry via the
agency funnel?
Thank you for all the value you’ve give Glenn, truly appreciate it.
Hey Matt,
To build off of Slavko, can I ask how many people you personally have on your team? Also, at what age did you get started and how long did it take you to get where you are now? Could you provide a super brief timeline?
If any of that’s too personal, I totally understand, but figured it couldn’t hurt to ask.
Hi Cody. I have 9 main people on my team. Started 6 years ago. Took 4 years to hit 7 figures yearly rev. I don’t want to get to detailed about that as its not whats important… I used to want to know these types things from others but then I learned every agency is very different. You will know what you source of pain is, then you solve that, grow get a new source of pain, solve that, then grow more. Our real success comes when we just start selling. Hope that helps. Cheers, Matt
Glen, I want you to do a post on retargeting.
Thank you guys for the interview.
Just wanted to share a couple of things for those who are in the beginning of their way to dominating local SEO and (maybe even, why not?) building a marketing empire.
I think Glen’s rank-and-rent model suits better for those who is just starting out.
And what Matt says is more useful as the next step of the journey.
A year ago I was inspired by Viperchill’s stuff, bought their backinksxxx course, put it into a practice and started my moonlight (a part-time) project to rank sites.
Matt says an important thing – to learn, to learn and once more to learn if you want to succeed. Viperchill’s Backlinksxxx course was an impressive beginner’s package for me. And having digested this part, I moved on to swallowing other pieces of information on SEO I could find in the web (with limited budget I managed to find awesome stuff for my level free of charge). I’ve been putting into practice what I read, focusing on what worked especially well for me.
Not to go far about my personal experience, just a couple of motivational and practical points:
1. You may don’t want to wait until you hit #1 in Google. Just rank the site to the first page of Google or so to get a so called minimum viable product (in my case it was a minimum viable traffic). And then rent the site.
2. Maybe not the first client you contact will buy your services, but you just need to be a little bit persistent in your attempts to find the client.
3. My project started bringing me $130/mo (it is how much I estimated my minimum viable traffic, being at the bottom of the 1st Google search page for one of my main keywords).
4. The pricing model I made up is the following. I picked up a list of potential clients who bought Google Ads for my keywords. Then I offered them my site with the half of recommended Google PPC price for my keywords for each unique visitor and described to the potential clients how it is profitable for them to use my services instead of Google’s.
5. Trust appeared to be very important in this model of business relationship. So don’t even to think of lying to your client. And try to over-deliver (e.g. give your client free advice on how to improve conversions – here I appreciate Matt’s advice to know not only SEO, but also conversions, marketing etc – it works even on this beginner’s level very well).
6. Sometimes you just need a little victory to believe in what you do. So, earn your first $100 (it is the hardest from a psychological point of view I believe), and you will understand that a 7-figure business is not that impossible as it seemed earlier to you.
P.S.: Thanks Glenn (and Diggy) for their work. Once Glenn wrote that most part of his writings is devoted to motivating people to take actions, not just read. That’s very vital I think. Once you start doing, you will feel the ground yourself and will be able to go your own course learning from everyone along the way.
P.P.S.: The comment became longer that I expected, but I hope it is helpful π
Great advice Michael thanks
Awesome post Glen and Matt, I learned a lot! This post and many other Viperchill blogs really show the sky is the limit.
I am looking to get into local SEO. Is there a course/person you would recommend as the ‘Guru” in this area? Also, does the principals of local SEO work across different countries as well? I am from the UK
Thanks
Hi Glen and Matt,
It seems many SEO guys and gals are still trying to manipulate some system to drive targeted traffic. In a way, much of SEO seems to be black hat because folks are still trying to crack a code, or game a system to conquer Google.
BUT…as you said, and as more folks should understand…Referrals grow your business, or grow the businesses or your clients, or grow any business, in the world, quicker than through any other strategy.
I recently published an eBook. Chris Brogan endorsed it. So did Yaro Starak. They weren’t customers of mine but they referred me and the eBook to their audiences, which boosted my eBook sales.
Endorsements, testimonials and referrals are the most powerful form of marketing on earth; word of mouth marketing. If you trust some person, and that person offers you advice, more often than not you take that advice to the bank.
Taking it to the bank means, buying what the person says you should buy and hiring the folks or agencies another client, or agency, says you should hire.
Word of mouth marketing rocks. Through just about any channel.
The focus should be on not manipulating a system, to get Google to spit out some results, to benefit you and your client, but to *build relationships* with clients, to engage in best SEO practices, to do your best to rank, and to grow their business.
In the end you’ll certainly be putting in time and energy to rank, to follow protocols, but if you make your business more about building connections with people, as you go about your SEO duties, referrals will rise, and your business will take off.
Thanks Glen and Matt. Smart share here.
I’ll tweet it in a bit.
Signing off from Fiji.
Ryan
Wow SEO is really big in medical industry Thanks for the post Glen. Keep it coming learning a lot from you.
How do you deal with seo when it comes to competitors? I never understood that.
Let’s say you use the R&R technique and target the auto rental niche, how do you manage that?
Not entirely sure what you mean, Anthony?
I recommend you check out the free videos on http://marketinginc.com
They should give you a very good idea of how this all works π
It would be great if you can share what Matt actually did in SEO, you know, some tips about the SEO technique.
I think it was mostly answered in my question to him.
Private network links
Guest posting
Outsourcing link building to other companies
Writing great content and getting people talking about it π
Hi Glen and Diggy!
Thanks for a great unique post (as always)!
First, I’ve found a couple of misspellings: “local SEOβs will grown up” and “As I final thought”.
Second: the article tells that you have dozen law companies paying you for SEO services. Also there’s a statement from Diggy: “so one client per niche per area in local marketing.” I’m just wondering: do you practice separating same area clients by keyword groups? Or you just do not take more than 1 customer from 1 area in 1 niche?
Third question. What would you advice to IM specialists living in low CPC (hence, cheap SEO) areas: to become local SEO gurus and wait for “big fish” or to go international? Any tips on “catching a big fish” using the rent method ? =)
Thanks!
Fixed those errors. Thanks, Larry!
Where did you get the Diggy quote from? Either way, to answer your question, we don’t let customers target the same keywords. That’s simply it. We have a limited number of clients paying us to rank more than 3 keywords so there is little overlap. They are local specific – but not in any areas local to us.
As mentioned in the post, I think becoming a local SEO guru will be hard for some people, especially in areas that aren’t economically booming or even just stable. I have no doubt you could get big clients without meeting them in person…we’re proof of that. Check out http://marketinginc.com if you haven’t already.
Thanks for another great post Glen! A little tricky to see if it’s you or Matt speaking at each point but nevertheless great content – it has spurred me to re-watch the Marketinginc videos again and take more detailed notes this time!
Interesting that Matt hasn’t tried the rank/rent model yet – did he tell you why not? Seems like a no-brainer to me if you’re good at SEO.
Cheers!
My bad!
I’m the guy with the big writing and just in one section where it says “Glen” in blue and the text under that.
I think he’s just so good at selling – particularly face to face – that he doesn’t need yo rely on it as much.
Hi Will.
There are tons of sales models and rank and then rent just is not one we have gotten too. Many because I do come from sales so I can sell before I deliver then I do not have a wait time to rank first.
There is lots I shared and then there is stuff you have to read between the lines a little but referrals are the best customers.
Cheers,
Matt
This is Really Amazing Post ! Every Blogger Must Follow your Tips. Thanks for Sharing with us.
Hey Glen!
I’ve seen a lot of people following the trend Matt mentioned, which is to create a “real” business with their money made online, whether it’s an e-commerce store or any other business.
Have you seen this happening with your buddies or have you thought about doing that in the near future?
I think it’s a great way to diversify your income, especially if you know SEO.
Cheers!
Well, this post fits perfectly in my current process of rebranding my business locally. Not sure yet to also go the niche way but it would make thinks definately easier and more scalable.
Having clients in all sorts of niches is how you start out but it becomes a pain in the ass quite fast cause you can’t be an insider in 15 niches. EVER. I also don’t want to be.
Getting the clients is not the problem. Getting the right clients is. I have clients that will never leave me as long as I am offering a marketing service. But I also have clients that make my hair go grey π
Greetings from Innsbruck,
Alex
Glen,
Some great points taken from two very good SEO’s. I am always interested when two heads talk and they have compelling ideas that both work in their own right. As they say there is no right or wrong way to SEO.
Cheers for the interview and keep them coming
Craig
Glen and Matt,
Thank you for your excellent dialog.
It is fascinating to see how others are succeeding online.
As a one-time products guy, I found the comment about having something to sell particularly interesting since I am still sorting out how I wish to proceed online.
Best, Bob
Well after reading this complete blog post, I will just say It’s awesome. I really like the way of explanation in this article. Tips are very good and helpful for me. I think other people should also read blog post very seriously because this will help them to learn something new which they need. Hope this post will also help others when they will read it. Thanks for sharing this wonderful blog post.
Hi Glen / Matt
Maybe I’m a little bit late with my comment, I had the email on my inbox but I was saving it to look a it with more detail as I know the content is always killer.
But this post… men. Is the best I’ve read on Viperchill based on the state where I wanna head to right now.
I have some questions for you Matt:
I’m in MΓ©xico on a small city and have 3 local clients. As I’m more PPC guy, do you think going for the PPC guy in my town is a good option? or should I go wide to all the country(PPC Guy for Mexico)? What you reccommend? Is it possible to do both?
I was thinking on ony offering PPC (Advertising) online services only, but as I have been reading the post now I’m doubtfull about also offering SEO, website design etc.. Should I do that or focus on just PPC?
@Glen, do you think your SEO agency model works the same for like a PPC agency model?
Thanks again, I have paid for this post If that was possible hehe π
Cheers for the interview Glen. I agree with most of the main points raised.
Thanks for stopping by Daniel,
I should probably interview you next π
I think hard work is Key of Success. if anybody do Really Hard work he will be Success on Blogging. Thanks.
This is Really Great Post !
Love this quote βIf this monkey can do it then so can Iβ. I say that to myself every time. lol
Great interview again! However, this info is not very interesting for me.
Glen, maybe next time you’ll write about news websites and strategy based on huge amount of not very competitive keywrords? how to get rank on thousands of keywords?
Awesome article, tons of value.
I never thought that Id be mentioned in a Viper Chill blog post! (the underground elephant guy)
Haha, I wasn’t sure if you would want your identity revealed π
Such an awesome post. I am currently expanding my business into local SEO just targeting my hometown. This has inspired me to kick on with it π
in all that interview one sentence is true: all seo is BLACK HAT :)) thats damn true
Great content, unfortunately in Brazil we do not have much quality of learning, as in other sites. We have to study outside sites so we can understand everything and how it works. Beautiful article, hug!
Hi Glen, hi Mark!
Thanks for sharing the insights! Great interview, a big lot of nuggets in this one obviously.
Especially since the local marketing thing provides a really new angle for myself.
Muchas Gracias!
Justin
Hey Matt
Some Brazilian professionals say that SEO will die in the future.
Do you agree with this statement?
Never!
Matt knows a lot about it , what I observe are many people who take time to have your results , you know why? why not enjoy what you do , if you look at the beginning of the article he says he loves what he does , talves this is a point that generates these great results motivation, congratulations for the work.
Great Matt!
Cheers!
Excellent article, good tips will be putting into practice.
This is an advantage of targeting a niche I always told to my clients.
Thank you for letting Matt shared his thoughts about SEO business . I have been doing my marketing campaign for years and this interview inspires me to do my best. SEO success is not impossible if you have a strong marketing strategy with quality content.
Nice post ! SEO is all !